Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?

Posted On Jun 25, 2020 By admin With Comments Off

Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his strifes with major sadnes and suicidal gues into comedic material.

What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.

( Transcript Available Below )

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Guest Information for’ Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode

Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.

Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more occasions than he can count. He’s defended a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark excursion of the feeling into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving revelations on Mental Health Awareness with associations, corporations, and colleges.

A Motivational Public Speaker who exercises “peoples lives” assignments to start the conversation establishing beings permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences circumventing hollow and suicide.

And doing it by coming out, as it were, and stand in his truth, and doing it with humor.

He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laughter there is life , none dies chuckling. The title party, at the right time, with the right information, can save a life.

About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Suicide

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and talker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the favourite notebook, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed reproduces are also available directly from Gabe Howard . To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has combated feeling her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travelling; and lineups 12 duos of shoes online, selects the best one, and refers the other 11 back.

Computer Generated Transcript for” Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer produced and therefore may contain mistakes and grammar flaws. Thank you.

Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.

Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as ever, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?

Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a cute voice.

Gabe: You reflect squandering like a different inflection, but the exact same messages is a new introduction for you?

Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.

Gabe: That’s terrible.

Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.

Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m pleased to see that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health concerns OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.

Lisa: Yes. Special guests, Frank King, lives with major feeling and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he is described as a soldier in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.

Gabe: And there’s your trigger counselling, folks, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you are aware, behind his back.

Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He could still listen to it.

Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because

Lisa: You forgot?

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that time yeah.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: I often forget that people are listening

Lisa: Really?

Gabe: No. No, never.

Gabe: And we’re just going to affect him a entire cluster. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The rebuttal, of course, is that beings do joke about assassinate. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.

Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Lisa: Oh, thank you for being here.

Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?

Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?

Lisa: Too soon to say.

Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I are plenty of time.

Gabe: COVID has slow-going us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?

Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth point and the teenagers chortled and I told my mommy I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our family. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if “youve selected”. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two severities. One in political science, one in industrial relations.

Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.

Frank: I didn’t either.

Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on comedy?

Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a superb placements midst. I interviewed literally 77 eras. No second interviews , no undertaking offers. So they’re looking at me reckoning this guy’s a buffoon. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father worked for an insurance company and he disputed me a responsibility as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first wife. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I just didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, virtually. And you know what they say, opposites attract. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a outskirt of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, all countries of the world famous Comedy Store on Sunset.

Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.

Frank: And so I

Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.

Frank: And so I did what I tell jesters or intended to be comics to do. Go and sit through open mic darknes twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the heroism. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure enough, 75, 80 percent were horrible. And I’m thinking I’m that funny simply walking around. And so the third night I get, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I recollect is I’d ever seen guacamole. I’ve never actually examined an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a chip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m levitate over the container, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I pot it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my top that night, it’s only happened got a couple of hours in my life. I had the plan unbidden. I’m home on stage

Lisa: Aww.

Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I have no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup slapstick. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.

Gabe: Frank, I enjoy that narrative and that, of course, answers the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health? Why a mental health comedian?

Frank: Well, we’ll get there.

Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.

Lisa: Don’t, don’t.

Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.

Frank: I determine, okay.

Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to represent him go faster, he’ll go slower. Just ponder Zen.

Frank: Yeah,

Lisa: Be chill.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: See all these times, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it makes longer.

Gabe: That’s so sweet.

Frank: I did amateur nighttime for about a year, and then I prevailed a controversy in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend , now my bride of 32 years.

Lisa: Oh.

Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we threw everything into storage that we couldn’t fit into my minuscule little Dodge Colt.

Gabe: Wow.

Frank: No air conditioning. And we affected the road for 2,629 lights in a row. Nonstop, beer barroom, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy golf-club. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home , no residence. No, we were, you know.

Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I think maybe they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?

Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.

Frank: And it was a great time of our lives. I entail, back then they put you up in a comedy condo, three bedrooms. So I is cooperating with and spent season, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we rode that beckon for about seven years. And then I have a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my age-old hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to amount six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.

Lisa: Well, but in absolute cost, that’s a, that’s a big up.

Gabe: I make, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.

Lisa: There “theres going”. Yeah.

Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road make stand up. Well, standup was going away. More squads are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter brew saloon situations. But attach the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and journey that and made good money time doing HR friendly corporate clean-living comedy until 2007 and a half basically. And then world markets, you are aware, the speaking grocery dropped out 80% basically overnight. And my partner and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Section 7 insolvency. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my firearm smacks like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine been put forward afterwards, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, mortal, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I depart, Hey, person, could “youre trying to” chime a little less disheartened? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.

Gabe: I symbolize, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like actually ponderous. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, “whats being” I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.

Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.

Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I signify, there’s no other way to frame it. That was a joke about something really, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a startle significance there. There’s a like that was unexpected.

Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.

Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I symbolize, I can already read the notes. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one side, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like well unexpected. But on the other hand, I increase humor. I adopt humor. It is healthy. How do you refute the people that tell you this?

Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I convey, how did that happen?

Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually was indicated that. So I only, as numerous comics do,

Lisa: Ok.

Frank: Added to that because everybody laughed. The actual original pipeline was insolvency, lost everything. And I had an itch on the ceiling of my speak I could only scratch with the breast area on my nickel plated. 38, which beings observed a little graphic. So I,

Gabe: Yeah.

Lisa: Well.

Frank: I was put forward by the what the barrel of my gun flavors like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the gathering who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my handgun tastes like, “youre seeing” them lean forward because all of a abrupt, they realize that I get wise. And it outrages the neuro typical people, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical beings decipher how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my artillery and then I disappear, spoiler alerting, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, even though it is merely gets a nervous scream, that front, you know. Huh. And then the large-hearted payoff is friend of mine been put forward. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is erected that acces on purpose. The surprise appraise. And then the first tiny laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you gave a grease-gun in his lip? And then the large-hearted titter with the chap who been put forward afterwards and said, you are aware, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.

Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was demonstrate some affliction about the original position, about the itchines on the ceiling of my lip. Nobody’s ever complaints about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve appalled him into convulsion. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a slapstick principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the artillery in the mouth and you follow orders with something amusing, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next article of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a lilt to and then the reason, you know, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my speech. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I saw all the old school motivational guys, Zig Ziglar and like that. I felt, gentleman, I could do that if I precisely “ve got something to” coach soul. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in their own families. My grandmother died by suicide.

Frank: My mother knew her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I encountered her. I was four years old, I screamed for periods. I imagined, I see I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a record by a woman named Judy Carter announced The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I went into it envisioning, I’ve got nothing. And Judy strolls you through determining your nature narration and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I belief I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s book to design my first TED talk. I use a work called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I delivered it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, your best friend , no one knew. Now to Gabe’s target, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the preferred usage around suicide was die by suicide, completed a suicide, in that I said is suicide. And it actually expense me a gig. They saw that, and I said, well, look at the next three.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I use the call committed suicide.

Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I proceed. I used to be the multitude of a podcast announced A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a little. Not all of our forward but, but probably 75% of our forward, was your language is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital datum that you can listen to at your vacation. And I thought that’s just so ponderous. But what really struck me about this expression debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say ended suicide or struggled suicide. I don’t like the call commit because it establishes it resonate. I agree with that reform. But so what? You probably made in accordance with the design behind it as well. And you exactly didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if “were starting”, you know, burning beings each time they make a mistake. I represent, only heaven forbid.

Frank: Well, here’s the distribute. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.

Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the room that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you are aware, that communication is likely to be influenced in a way that makes people pay closer attention.

Frank: Oh, yeah.

Gabe: Or a route that makes people chortle or that, you are aware, ruffles people’s stripes. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we placed as much effort into get beings with serious mental illness facilitate as we do in deciding how to discuss parties with serious mental illness, I foresee the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.

Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I want to expend my endeavour. I’ll application proper language. But I’m not you are aware, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I spoke to said committed suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to clas him. I symbolize, if I understand him last-minute, I’d say, hey, follower, only a memo, you are aware, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have said and done with other people. You know, people say something. I said, seek, you are aware, when you figure somebody has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always expression so much as it is. You know, I espouse joy.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: Ok, well, one of the guys who’s involved in our bible are largely a positive motivational loudspeaker sort of fellow. And he recollects, he said anything about the state of mind, that positive cognitive state and opting positive reckons is the antidote to sadnes. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever satisfy. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my mentalities out tomorrow. But, you are aware, it’s not such matters of attitude.

Lisa: Positive reckon merely takes you so far.

Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a parent of a child who has a problem depression and believes of suicide to hire a tutor. A life instruct. It’s like , no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will challenge me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How can you joke about hollow and expects of suicide? I say, so here’s the transaction. In comedy, perhaps you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: Or when people tell me how is a response to my own damage or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about their own lives that lane. What I

Frank: What?

Gabe: I exactly. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this care is good. This therapy is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med example. Exactly everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about “peoples lives”. And then people start having sentiments of how I’m supposed to think and discuss my life. It’s bad enough you everyone has rulings on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now , now I want to fight.

Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.

Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.

Frank: The honour your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?

Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.

Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three chaps treading into a bar.

Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three people in a pizza place

Frank: Yeah. Exactly.

Lisa: Well, the epithet of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the episode is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.

Frank: Yes.

Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the designation. People suck.

Lisa: I know.

Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, looking, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say set it in the depict notes. And here’s the treat. The rationale I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I apply my cell phone number.

Lisa: Actually?

Frank: Yep.

Lisa: Ok.

Frank: I say, sound, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or text HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t call word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.

Gabe: Yes.

Frank: As gay beings took back the period faggot and concluded it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid off it. It’s my command if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that does my dander up. It’s, you know.

Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I cherish so much better. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on texts that we’re not at all hung up on context.

Frank: No.

Gabe: Do you know how many heinous things have happened to me with the privilege names being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your work because you’re person or persons living with mental illness

Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and exertion it would be to end homelessness or accommodate an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.

Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.

Lisa: Yeah, that helps, too. You don’t have to leave your house.

Frank: And I get together once a month, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy slapstick klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our tournament face and we are just ourselves and say things that they are able to. One morning individual comes and starts, you are aware, a chap jump-start off a six fib building downtown. I get, six tales? Not a chance in inferno. You could live six narratives. Really leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.

Lisa: Good thinking.

Frank: And there’s somebody at the counter behind me is like, did you really? I proceed, it’s a math difficulty. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a smash. But that’s how you know. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, seem, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a aqueduct and land on some poor civilian’s car and devastate their lives forever. Get a device vest, find some jackass and fold your limbs around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you know, constitute the world a better place.

Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: That is terrible advice and Not Crazy, does not is not forgive assassination in any way.

Lisa: I really can’t believe. I have depleted a great deal of day to be considered suicide. I “ve never” thought of that.

Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows laughter, it’s dark laughter. Now, I am a fan of it. In my darkest moments, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the people that looked at me and was just telling me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everyone likes them and not everyone understands them.

Frank: No.

Gabe: I mean, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health issues or. You know, their own families. OK, here’s what this reminded everyone. My dad get in a disagreeable accident. I entail, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We got a call. We had to get in the car. We has drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s hit to shit. And the wet-nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my father, he’s on drugs. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you are aware, like, actually physically messed up from the accident? And he’s applying the wet-nurse hurt. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you are aware, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.

Gabe: And I gazed my father in the eyes and I said, if you don’t signed that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of stillnes for like a few seconds. And my dad only starts laughable. He really starts cracking up. He’s tittering so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t impel me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he ratifies it. Now, I’ve told that storey, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time people breath like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your papa had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What kind of a cruel, horrid son are you? Look, I know my dad. This is how we talk to each other. It relieves the attitude. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the chamber, which was the fact that my papa came in industrial accidents that almost killed my husband and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not chuckling, we’re crying.

Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics the hell is uncomfortable, it’s a way to obligate you feel better about things that are sucky.

Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you outweigh that? Because in any room, specially your apartments, Frank, they’re big areas, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those areas. And better than average quirkies are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill beings and you’re doing a great disservice.

Frank: Yeah, well, you are aware, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m very careful. You’ve got to know your audience.

Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your audience.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.

Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate occasions. The gathering doesn’t espouse themselves. This does it a little harder. Right, Frank? I convey, if you’re.

Lisa: Well , no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he simply needs to please the people who hired him.

Gabe: Now, is everything all right, that that’s.

Lisa: Those two things will probably usually go together, but not always.

Gabe: We’re not playing advocate projectile here, Lisa.

Lisa: I’m just saying.

Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational addres for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They call me up and they said.

Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.

Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?

Frank: True story.

Gabe: It’s a true story.

Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.

Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.

Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational discussion for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much better. I had to have my first slide is, you are aware, Thinking Inside the Box. The lad and leader are crazed. And then his daddy is on a ship. I’m doing 10 periods on a 115 daylight world sail. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the sail, the older the passengers.

Gabe: Truly?

Lisa: Well, that manufactures feel. They have the time.

Gabe: I predict. Yeah, they don’t have rackets. Yeah, that concludes sense.

Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen daytimes, we’re talking age-old beings and their parents. Each night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 bench theater, it was parcelled. I call my wife, sugar, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my play I have this story about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, chaps like if you’ve never tattered glasses, expect somebody because that’s funny.

Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say simply people who wear glasses are gonna do that.

Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look harrowing at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke

Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.

Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say

Gabe: Well, but it is funny.

Frank: It is funny, and the gathering titters. And I say is anybody here in the gathering, a mortician, retired or active responsibility? And a person on the balcony collect his hands. I move, what’s a mortician make on a 115 era nature cruise? He stands up, tides his arm across a gather and goes inventory. And it kills.

Gabe: Oh.

Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it may be, Gabe, because he hands the punch line.

Lisa: It’s entirely because he hands it.

Frank: Yeah, exactly.

Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.

Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an arts and a science. Comedians should ever be shooting up , not down.

Lisa: Exactly. Yes.

Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about hollow and suicide because I’d be shooting down.

Gabe: Right. You’d be “re making fun” of beings below you on that. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a subdued group is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.

Frank: It’s like, dames should always win in a joke. And that’s why souls shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six hoof tall, dark-brown haired grey person because I.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.

Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.

Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white-hot male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that mode in a relatively stable family and you haven’t superseded at something, you’re doing it wrong.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or colors or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus period or predicament plus era. So, you know, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a lily-white chap , not so much better. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I try to school my speaking instructing students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I make, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you told. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I recollect, than in the past because of the partition. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men “re driving me” around to radio stations. And one of them said, you are aware, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about beings get upset? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. Nonetheless, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my thinking is. And then there’s an F and an’ em. F’ em.

Lisa: Hmm.

Frank: I don’t care whose toes I tread on if it conveys I’m saving people.

Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If beings are offended, I don’t think that’s undoubtedly a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements

Frank: Oh, yeah.

Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they differ passionately with what you said, they’re applying their critical concluding knowledge to what you said and determining if they like it or shun it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s supremacy in that. If after I leave a whole knot of parties get together and discuss everything that I said, I think that a lot more people will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I want, literally time it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: But I want to be remembered.

Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your cornerstone premise, that vary your gathering, there’s not? That here i am, in fact , nothing that goes too far?

Frank: Well, there’s too soon.

Lisa: Ok, too soon.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: All title. Not exactly the same.

Frank: But yeah, I speculate Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with person, who comes up subsequentlies and told me to, ogle, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my philosophy. Here’s why I was indicated that. Here’s why I pick those utterances. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I mean it’s.

Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I make, one of these discussions has perhaps had contributed to you varying up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining brand-new info?

Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a lot of comics, male, heterosexual, procreated jokes about AIDS because it was the lesbian plague. Back then, anyway. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine took me aside. He vanishes, Look, I know you don’t have a necessitate bone in your person, but I don’t think you understand how destroying this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I drooped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a lot. And I’m very careful about, you are aware, getting there.

Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.

Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred word. Or lives with bipolar. That’s a well-liked word that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it expenditure me to change it?

Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it provided free of charge?

Frank: Yeah,

Lisa: You to change it?

Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that ought to be our focus.

Lisa: Right. Right.

Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless trouble or much more difficult.

Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.

Lisa: Do you feel that some of the assessment you got is, you are aware, when I appreciate people who are using incorrect periods, et cetera, that you are interested in, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the reputing was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you are able to previously be at that position? Like, is that part of the analysi that people feel like you, of all parties, should know better?

Frank: Yeah, I would say so,

Lisa: Would you not get that same extent of criticism if you yourself did not have a mental illness?

Frank: Yeah, accurately. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that depth understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I expend a good deal of go by myself in self thought inside my own pate and.

Gabe: Of trend I do. Constantly.

Lisa: That’s mental illness.

Frank: Yeah,

Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.

Lisa: Yeah.

Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because combat connotes I can win. I cannot earn. I can bind. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot win. And I’ve had arguments with parties , no you can be medication. No. No. For me, there is no cure.

Lisa: Right. Only treatment.

Frank: I live with it. I make sort of an aikido approach. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their intensity, you blend with the vigour, take their offset. Because depression is a great power and vigour. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that exertion to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, duelling it.

Lisa: We’ll be right back after these messages.

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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your acts, where does your humor come from?

Frank: I trust my slapstick duration, ingenuity is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I coached a class called Stand Up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I got to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a twilight one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her thought. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two one-thirds of it. She goes I went to see my analyst. I lead, Camille, what did the therapist say? Well, he asked me if I was depressed? I said yes. He would like to know whether I had any designs of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five programmes. Five projects? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or only the ones that involve you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he was necessary to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wants to see other beings. I said, What did “youre telling”? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a minute. Just that’s the way it came out of her heading. And here’s a consider, I can learn you to write standup comedy.

Frank: I could school you accomplish standup slapstick. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if somebody said, Frank, one capsule one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal envisioned. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my slapstick comes from. And heckler words, parties start, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We are currently in busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a sail. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up. I exit, it’s not a telephone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another sequence, remained my tone down. Well, it didn’t delight her at all. It didn’t mollify her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, demonstrated your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I learn. I has got no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or play-act comedy. But it don’t hurt.

Gabe: I ever hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of bibles that say, you are aware, some of the best comedy comes from distressing experience.

Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a painful suffer. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m undoubtedly not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some epoches. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you are aware, I bid it was a video podcast

Frank: Air quotes.

Gabe: So parties could see how often I can make air mentions. If it wasn’t for the feeling that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.

Frank: One last-place speciman, I had a heart attack, I was in the timbers half mile up a logging way with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell assistance. And that never fails to get a laugh and.

Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.

Frank: Oh, God.

Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.

Frank: Yes. Suctions out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, screeched at my wife. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I discover she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at research hospitals. Here’s the delightful thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody hands a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus term equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing slapstick in real time.

Lisa: I could see that.

Frank: That wet-nurse told me to, I’m in great deal of agony. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank , no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to chuckle. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my humor, what the hell is I have? She goes, No , no , no , no. Your full call is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the sorenes, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I going to go to Oregon Heart& Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the feeling. I imply, if I didn’t have that highway of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happen to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope.

Gabe: You know, Frank, clearly I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical issues. I was scurried in an ambulance to emergencies. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And now I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying desperately to find me.

Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six hoof three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: And the wet-nurse said, you’re looking for Gabe?

Lisa: He’s only “re out there” like fifteen inutes.

Frank: Well, he makes an impression.

Lisa: That really happened.

Gabe: I do. I make an impression.

Lisa: He’s not reach that that floor up. That actually happened.

Gabe: Now, here I am. The remainder of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.

Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, gape, Frank, he had a lot. He got a lot of blames, but I never went to a party with him which is something we didn’t have a good time.

Lisa: I can see that.

Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that narration is because everybody loves that story. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was frightening. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that method. But whenever I do that for mental illness, beings are like, that’s unwarranted stop. And I’m like , no, wait a minute.

Frank: What?

Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you are aware,

Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.

Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, “re making fun” of me, virtually dying from a surgery, going wrong and approximately bleeding to fatality at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar affective disorder. And parties are like I don’t know that you’re making it earnestly. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other people that suffer from this. And I only notes that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you know, the big father story

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I hear some of the stuff about suicidality, feeling, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider only, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s reviewed and considered the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, feeling is funny. We needed most. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.

Frank: It’s a way of broken off hindrances and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your recollections have to meet. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, construing the same thing. I tell my slapstick students, paint the picture, it’s gotta be very lucid. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.

Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.

Frank: Well , thank you very much.

Lisa: Yeah, we are actually experienced it. Where can people find you?

Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web area. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing the coming week, there will be an audio book version of a book that Gabe and I are in.

Gabe: Yeah, I actually I speculate I’m in loudnes two and you’re in work one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit& The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a collection of floors from somebodies about their mental health issues publications, mental illnesses and time the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that gentlemen precisely don’t talk about their mental health enough and there’s getting to be more boys. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was mainly women.

Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose thought it was and who teaches QPR to first responders, mostly boys. She went to the bookstore to find a work on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t find one. So she

Gabe: Here we go.

Frank: She situated it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free print of the audio journal that I voiced.

Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.

Lisa: Oh, expressed appreciation for again so much.

Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.

Lisa: All privilege, expressed appreciation for, bye-bye.

Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I represent, “its probably” hard-boiled with Gabe and Frank on the line.

Lisa: Well, I thought he conjured some interesting points. I visualized his humor was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a convention, I’d want to go see that.

Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a forum, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.

Lisa: No.

Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.

Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a recognizable direction to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Roughly everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all call laughter to get through dark ages or to address dark themes. So, if this is something that you’re awkward with, formerly he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to titter. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re pleasant with it.

Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I is a well-known fact that you like gallows humor. I know that you like pitch-dark humor.

Lisa: I do, I genuinely do.

Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I want, he precisely sounded out of nowhere. You ogled disagreeable. I felt embarrassing.

Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much uncomfortable, as precisely astonished and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What happened next? And, today, whoa, he exactly departed directly for it. There’s no lead up , no buildup. I review maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.

Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s say you and I were we’re sitting in my living room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I exactly I pop that joke. Would you know what to say then?

Lisa: Well, it’s different.

Gabe: Would you have laughed?

Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with person you literally know. I’ve met this subject for the first time just now.

Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting idea, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,

Lisa: Well.

Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious of the reasons why?

Lisa: Well.

Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I roared uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.

Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things merely because most of my friends and family only aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said humor, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.

Gabe: But you’re alone.

Lisa: Oh, okay.

Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.

Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?

Gabe: There’s no make. There’s no makes. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: However, you acted, is being recorded right now.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: On preserves that you don’t hold. Did that impact the course that you reacted?

Lisa: Absolutely.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it affects the way that his audience greetings as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to do your cue from other people as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so surprising and it’s so astonishing that you’re just not sure what the hell is do.

Gabe: Isn’t this what comes us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to make your clues from culture to decide how you should react. Now, let’s employed that in an resemblance for people living with mental illness, maybe the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should

Lisa: Oh.

Gabe: Not date him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to civilization to decide how to react. And unexpectedly the person with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I determined funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.

Lisa: Well,

Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.

Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair comparing, since we are do have a vested interest in how our listeners greeting. It’s not like we were at a comedy organization with a assortment of people and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the person or persons listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair analogy. So let’s use that analogy, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a assortment of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you know, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.

Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a good deal. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of humor, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do embracing humor is healthy. I do is of the view that sometimes joking about it breaks down hurdles. It’s like the resemblance that I told about my daddy. There are people who are shocked to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that style. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.

Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.

Gabe: And there. There is my big-hearted point, I is of the view that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a loudspeaker. Where people say, you know, that’s not something that you are able to joke about. But different contexts is education. The framework is fetching it out of the shadows and fixing it something that we can point at, jest at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I conceive a guy

Lisa: Well, but.

Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am working on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.

Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any contentious humorist or any contentious comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this commentary of someone’s fabric ever if they knew for sure the people in the gathering would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of parties is cozy with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not comfy with it, we need to meet them comfortable with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.

Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that parties have a right to discuss their lives and their pain and their mental illness in any way they demand. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We adoration him. We had him on our register. But I foresee the mixture here is to understand that Frank is describing his journeying in the way that he is pleasant with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this action. You is impossible to describe your experience in this manner. You is impossible to describe your trauma use these words. I think that really causes a system where people can’t characterize their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of controversial humorists that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other people. They’re not saying them about their egoes.

Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.

Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his life. And yeah, some people don’t like the practice that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.

Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has kind of the inalienable claim to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the room they want to, to keep it into the words they opt. And I want to just go with that. I want to merely be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start reflecting well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.

Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He only talks about his experiences, his life. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with recession needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d testify right up and I’d be like, dude, you’re not the elected spokesman for beings with dimple.

Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few articulations out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damaging. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I reflect many parties feel like you need to tightly govern that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or impairing and other beings be understood that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t praise the path he talks about it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall motion. So I don’t know where to go with that.

Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.

Lisa: OK.

Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.

Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.

Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that foliages me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I cherish it when people tell me I’m wrong. I enjoy it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I desire it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your totality podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental health issues Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is only goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I wholly disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They be interested to hear what I said. They considered all that is I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. “Theres anything” wrong with that. We is expected to be very, very clear. I simply want to take a moment. Frank is not make any of these things. We’re just employ him as a

Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.

Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the evidence. I bet he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it.

Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting clients after this.

Gabe: But severely, these discussions are potent. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one method or all another.

Lisa: Because where’s the line?

Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a world-wide where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That macrocosm does not exist. I feel very strongly that the best we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would move forward at an extraordinarily rapid frequency if all the people who contended could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and propagandize that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The mode that a middle aged white guy knowledge bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 time old woman who’s been living with bipolar affective disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are being diagnosed, that differs from people below the poverty line, above the poverty line.

Lisa: Yeah, we get wise. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.

Gabe: I just I haven’t even scratched the surface of gaps yet. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even covered 1 per cent of all of significant differences with people bipolar disorder.

Lisa: Well, patently not. Because all of the person or persons with bipolar disorder represent all of the available differences in the population.

Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than time mental health.

Lisa: Yeah, It’s a universally pertinent discussion.

Gabe: And I truly wanted to remind my listeners that, you are aware, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.

Lisa: Yeah, it is.

Gabe: The disallow is different for us. But, you are aware, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of contentious topics, frightening topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same questions that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that oblige us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to step on somebody’s toes.

Lisa: Yeah. Now, now. Gabe.

Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?

Lisa: Yes. A real plow to have Frank with us today.

Gabe: It was certainly, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a new highway to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I.

Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, parties, promotion me, help me. Give me some advice.

Gabe: Genuinely? You want people to e-mail show @PsychCentral. com to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own display?

Lisa: Yes, I be considered that people should definitely e-mail show @PsychCentral. com to let us know what it is I should be saying.

Gabe: You sounds the lady; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. If you cherish the reveal, please give us as countless performs as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Utterances actually, genuinely facilitate. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive paroles to share us and subscribe and to spawn us famous. Like, wouldn’t it be cool only if it is as prominent as Frank King,

Lisa: Oh.

Gabe: at mental health comedian scatter com?

Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.

Gabe: Once again, expressed appreciation for, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.

Lisa: Bye. See you then.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, tour PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/ NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person? Not Crazy jaunts well. Have us record an episode live at your next occasion. E-mail show @psychcentral. com for details.